Abundant + Aligned
Welcome to the Abundant + Aligned podcast. We welcome women who are ready to live the life of their dreams. Here, we talk all things mindset, manifestation and entrepreneurship. We are on a mission to create abundance in all areas of life and playing small just isn't our jam! So if you are ready to expand your mind to the possibilities, turn off autopilot and live with intention, you are in the right place! We are abundant and aligned.
Abundant + Aligned
Build a magnetic brand in 2025 (and avoid the social media mistakes killing your growth) with Sarah Hall from Cymbal Agency
The Advice From Her series continues. If you want to build a magnetic brand in 2025 and avoid becoming just another business lost in the scroll, this conversation is your blueprint.
In today’s Advice From Her episode, I'm joined by Sarah Hall, founder of the creative marketing firm Cymbal Agency and Brisbane's newest content studio, Cymbal Studio. With nearly a decade of experience driving impact for Australia's best-loved brands, Sarah knows what it takes to stand out, stay fresh, and scale smart.
We dive deep into what’s changing on social media RIGHT NOW and what’s killing even the most promising brands if they don't adapt.
Inside this episode, you'll discover:
✨ The surprising shifts in marketing you must understand to stay relevant in 2025
✨ The social media habits that are secretly slowing your growth (and what to do instead)
✨ Why "more content" on social media is NOT the answer and what today's smartest brands are focusing on instead
✨ How to capture (and keep) attention on social media in a market full of fatigue and noise
✨ The difference between brands that plateau... and those that explode
✨ Sarah’s behind-the-scenes journey of building two thriving businesses, and what she wishes more entrepreneurs knew about brand success
I know 2025 is your year to own the stage in your industry, so this episode is a must!
👑 Apply for HER Empire Business Mastermind here
✨ Follow me on Instagram for daily mindset tips and lots of BTS content of my life (building a 7 figure business, living by the beach, my daily routines and travels)
👉🏻 Browse the free resources - meditations, manifestation tracks and more
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Welcome to the Abundant and Aligned podcast, a place where you will come to realize anything you desire is possible. I'm Jess mindset and business coach, and I'm on a mission to lead women to a life far from average. In this show, you can expect conversations around manifestation, subconscious reprogramming, entrepreneurship and the daily habits of a woman living a life that is both successful and fun. Imagine a TED Talk, but over wine. My wish for you is that you experience an unlimited flow of money, a business that attracts your dream clients and the freedom to spend your time how you choose, and if you stick with me, that will soon be your reality. I'm honored to be on the journey with you, so let's get into it.
Speaker 1:Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Abundant and Aligned podcast and welcome to another episode as part of the advice from her series. I'm so excited for this one today. It has a very special place in my heart because I have Sarah with me today, who was my marketing genius for just over a year in my business and now such a dear friend of mine. And when I put together this advice from her series and I wanted a marketing expert to come on board, it was a no brainer to ask Sarah. So I do have Sarah here from Symbol Agency.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the show, Thank you so happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Sarah has recently moved into her own studio, which we're going to talk about today, and there's some Renos going on next door. But our show is casual. We're here for the rawness, and sometimes that comes with drilling into the walls, so you'll just have to be patient with us today. But as for an intro, sarah, I'm just going to hand the mic over. Give us a bit of a spill personal business, all the things so that they can get to know you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure yes, and my name is Sarah. I'm the founder and director at Symbol Agency. We are a creative marketing agency that works with fashion, beauty, lifestyle, retail brands. We work across social media, so organic social media, social media, advertising, email marketing, influencer marketing and events and activations. So I've been running Symbol for almost two years now. I'll be two years in September, so we're still quite a young agency but yeah, we've had some pretty exciting growth over the last year and a half, which kind of feels like 10 years already but also feels like five minutes, but yeah, so I've got about eight years experience in the marketing industry and, yeah, kind of made the leap to go out on my own yeah, just under two years ago. And yeah, I wanted to make, I guess, all of my marketing skills that I've learned over the last eight years working with really big brands and really small brands, making it more accessible, I guess, to small to medium businesses across Australia.
Speaker 1:I love it and it is crazy. You've only been here for two years, like in your business, for two years, and that's where we're going to start. I want to. I want to talk to Sarah about her business journey, because she has made some huge leaps in such a short amount of time, which I know will inspire so many of you. But stick around because I am also going to pick her marketing brain and we're going to be talking about the trends in 2025, what to stop doing to stay relevant, how to continue to scale from a marketing lens. So that is coming.
Speaker 1:But, like I said, sarah, I know you've done so much in just two years and that is a huge testament to you and your courage, because business can be scary, and especially for you. You've got, like you've got a team of staff, you now have a studio and, yeah, that can be a lot as an entrepreneur, but the fact that you've just gone in and kept the foot on the accelerator is, as I said, a huge testament to you. So I'd love to take you right back to when you first decided to go out on your own and leave what would have been a stable job with a career ahead of you in the marketing industry. Where were you at when you decided to leave your job and become self-employed Like? Why did you decide to work for yourself and how did you navigate what would have been quite a scary leap?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it definitely was really scary, particularly because I absolutely loved my job, like I love and still love my old bosses, like still on great terms with them. Everything ended really amicably and yeah, I loved that job, I loved our clients there. I was working in another small agency and, yeah, at the time I kind of just felt like maybe I'd reached a certain level within the agency. That, yeah, and I was really confused. I felt like I always had this career path in front of me of, you know, I get to this promotion and then you do this and then you go to that promotion, and then I just kind of wasn't feeling as fulfilled by it anymore. And yeah, there was kind of just like an opportunity that presented itself to, yeah, either stay with the company and keep growing with them or it felt like the right time to take the leap and I thought, if I don't do it now, I think I'll kick myself if I don't at least give it a go, because, worst case scenario, I go out on my own. If it fails, I know I can come back and get a job in another agency or at a brand or something like that. So yeah, I kind of just thought, why not, I'll take the leap, um, and kind of as soon as I made that decision, I kind of put in the groundwork because I didn't really have I'm horrible at saving money, which is probably like a mindset thing that I can ask you about but yeah, I had like almost no money, no savings to my name, and obviously like was surviving week like week to week through my, through my job that I was in. So I kind of just put my foot on the pedal as soon as I'd made that decision and let them know that I was going to leave and just reach out to some like contacts that I had over the years who would maybe ask me to do freelancing stuff for them. But I never could because I was at agencies. So there's obviously a non-compete. So just reach out to a few people and yeah, within I guess like the space of a few weeks, I already had like three or four clients, which was just amazing and it kind of all just took off way faster than I could have ever expected and, um, it definitely now, looking back on when I started it, like god, I had it so much easier then, way less clients and a lot less stressful, but now obviously I have a team to support through all of that. So, yeah, I think it was a big test of courage and I'm very into all of this woo-woo stuff.
Speaker 2:So I guess, like throughout that time, I was constantly seeing I'd use like angel numbers. I guess is like my way of knowing that I'm on the right path to something. And I was just seeing it everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, and I'd seen a psychic and it's like crazy that I base my business decisions off what a psychic tells me. But, um, she said that my friend who had passed away when I was about 17 that that was that she's giving me signs and she's telling me that I'm on the right path, but I'm just not picking up that those are the signs. And then that was when it kind of clicked that maybe those are the right signs. Um, yeah, and that kind of I guess like helped me on my courage to make the leap. But yeah, it's just been like a whirlwind since we started. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that you lent on those signs, yeah, because don't you reckon, sometimes things are feeling easy and it's like we almost try and make it harder. It's like, wait, why is this so easy? It should be harder, like maybe this wasn't supposed to be the right move or whatever. And we get so in our head, um, and sometimes we need to get out of our head and just trust that we're actually doing the right thing, we're on the right path and it's supposed to be this easy for us. Um, so I love that you signs like whatever that could be for you just to have that little nudge of like no, actually everything's fine, stop stressing, keep trusting and keep moving forward. I love that.
Speaker 1:And then you very quickly obviously had all of these clients, but you very quickly grew and then you moved on to hiring staff. Talk to us about that, because that's a whole other thing in business, like when is the right time to hire staff? Obviously you're having to put money back into the business that's not going into your pocket. So I guess, same thing like when did you know it was time to expand the team? And how did you navigate, feeling ready for that from a mindset point of view?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that has staffing has been. Probably the most terrifying part about all of this is because I'm very conscious that there's people's livelihoods in my hands. I don't take that decision lightly at all. And yeah, I guess, working in agency, I obviously see the benefit for businesses in outsourcing and leaning on other people to help you out within your business. So I knew that if I wanted to grow quickly, that I did need to lean on. You know, either outsourcing some work or, yeah, building a team, and that's ultimately my goal is I want to have a really beautiful team within the agency.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, within a few months of me starting the agency, I was kind of at the capacity as to what I could handle myself, and so I had some connections at some of the unis in Queensland and so I reached out to them for anyone looking for internships and from there I had a few different interns and, yeah, my first hire, she was just amazing. When I had her in as an intern, she did a three-month internship with me as a part of her uni degree and, yeah, she was just amazing and I just thought I can't let this person slip through the cracks and it just felt like the right time. So she is still at uni, so then it was perfect opportunity for her to get a part-time job within the industry and I just started small. She just started working two days a week with me and then, within another couple of months, I got to three and then four and then now she's been full-time for, yeah, like six to eight months. So, um, yeah, I think using utilizing internships through universities if that's relevant for your, yeah, field of work, then that's a great way way to learn about if that's the right fit. I guess. Give it a good test.
Speaker 2:I always encourage people if they do look into internships. You know you want to make sure it's as valuable for them as it is for you. So it's not just someone who can help you out with little bits of work here and there. It's they're getting value out of it that they can then take on to continue working with you or somewhere else. Um, so, yeah, I always implore people not to just think of it as someone to do all of the crappy work that you don't want to do. You know you want them to have a really valuable experience out of it as well. So, um, yeah, definitely a great way to trial run um people and, yeah, just work out if it's the right fit for your business, if having someone internally is good, or, yeah, looking to outsource maybe might be better. If you maybe don't have experience managing people, or yeah, that's just like not your jam. It's a good way to trial that out as well.
Speaker 2:And I think, yeah, making the decision to hire is always really hard. We've just now got a team of um three with me and, yeah, every time I've hired it's always been difficult because it's, yeah, you're taking that money out of your pocket and, well, other businesses pocket, and you know, giving that to someone else it's a risk. What if it doesn't work out? But it really is an investment into the business, um, so you, I guess you just have to think of it that way. It it's not an expense, it's an investment and ultimately it is. You know, these people are going to help take work off of your plate. There might be experts in certain areas and that's going to leave you to do what you're great at and do what you need to do to help your business grow. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that you've very rarely stayed comfortable in your business. Yeah, that's an easy thing to do as an entrepreneur is have like this spike when you first start of finding clients and getting yourself out there and then, once you start making decent money, you kind of a lot of entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs lean back and they get comfortable for too long, um, which then often leads to a bit of a plateau and whatever. But you've literally just come on in and just kept the foot on the accelerator and just to continue to grow, which I think is so cool as well, because it takes grit, it takes resilience. It's not easy to do, but you are a testament to what comes with that. You have such a successful business in such a short amount of time. Which leads me to your studio. Like you've just opened up a studio as well that you're doing alongside the agency. I mean, tell us about that, like that is cool.
Speaker 1:I like to have your own space that you can sit in and come to every day is a business owner's dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's so good it's been. We've been in the space for, yeah, a few months now and, yes, there's lots of construction going on because everyone else is. It's a brand new precinct so there's a lot of other businesses moving in as well. But, yeah, so we're based in Chermside, so just 10 kilometres from Brisbane CBD. It's a natural light content studio called Symbol Studio Kind of built for anyone looking for, I guess, a blank canvas that they can turn into their own. We have a lot of really great props and furniture, backdrops that, yeah, big brands can come in and do big e-commerce shoots and spend a whole day here and also get, you know, photos of models on couches and more in-situation shots. Or we've had content creators come through and they can just come and film a whole bunch of fashion try-ons or talking to camera kind of pieces. So it's been a really great um, and our office is upstairs of the content studio, so it's been a really great way to.
Speaker 2:I guess it's like another investment into the business. For me it's another mindset kind of thing. As to um, you know this is legitimate. Before this we were working out of my spare bedroom in my house and I definitely couldn't fit all my team in there and like blurring the lines of professionalism, having my team coming to my house every single day. So it's definitely nice having a space to go to, yeah, every single day, where the team can feel like it's theirs. They can come in when I'm not here. That was kind of you know, it would be weird if they came to my house and I was like it's sick and sick in bed or something like that. So, um, yeah, it's nice to have a space where we can all be together and I guess I kind of started the studio as one way to help out with our clients.
Speaker 2:Um, in Brisbane there's not a whole lot of studios. There's definitely lots more popping up now, which is great, but, um, there's lots on the Gold Coast, so we were always traveling down the Gold Coast to use those ones. Um, which isn't far, but it's just a big day when you do content shooting. It's like it's exhausting. You're on your feet, you're running around trying to get everything done in a certain amount of time. It's usually hot in these studios because they're kind of like warehouses, so it's big days. So we thought why not build one here or open one here that we can utilize for our clients. It's made things so much easier for us being able to get content on the fly for our clients. But then, yeah, it also is like a really beautiful space for us to come and work in. And, yeah, I guess I didn't really want to pay for an office space, so I was like, why not utilize the space and be able to hire out a part of it as well? And, yeah, it's been great for building industry contacts as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, such a smart move, especially for you as a marketing agency. Like your job is capturing content and photos and things like that. Um, it's a no-brainer to just use your own studio. But, yeah, I love your studio. It it is so quirky.
Speaker 1:I will obviously link everything in the show notes below, but go and have a look at Symbol Studio. But some of the props you have in there is just so cool and very unique and I know when you and I were looking for studios to work from, a lot of them do look the same, like you've definitely gone on your own path and created this space that really you don't see anywhere else. So if you are looking for like that quirky, unique look, then Simple Studio has it all Cool. Well, honestly, your journey is so inspiring. You inspire me and, as I said, I think it's just so cool that you have just continued to grow and scale. What you've done in such a short period of time is very cool. So thank you for sharing your journey.
Speaker 1:Now, your marketing brain is where we want to go today, because you are doing such cool things in this space and obviously, having worked with Sarah, I know how incredible she is, so I really just wanted to get her help for all of you guys today on marketing and creating a brand that really does stand out in what is a very competitive, competitive place at the moment, especially social media. We are spending so much time on the app but not much time on the app if that makes sense, like we're always on our phone but we're just scrolling and moving past content really quick. So I wanted Sarah's episode today to help you guys stand out more in the world right now, when it is so fast paced, and create a brand that really does stand out and stop the scroll. Which leads me to my first question, sarah what are the key marketing shifts that you're seeing in 2025, if any, and if there is anything that brands should stop doing to stay relevant?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of the major things that we're seeing across our clients is the shift in the type of content that we're posting.
Speaker 2:So, for example, during COVID, I think, and the rise of TikTok, that brought on a very native style of content. So, you know, people filming very ad hoc, all on iPhone, that kind of thing, and that still definitely performs really, really well. However, now more of that professional videography, beautiful photography, that kind of thing is starting to perform better as well, I think, because we've gotten now so used to that native style of content that then those things are stopping the scroll again. Before COVID it was kind of like that was in excess. That's all anyone did was really professional photography and videography. But now that we've all kind of gotten maybe a little bit more bored of the native style, that professional style content is coming in as well. Not to say yet that the native style isn't working we definitely still utilize it but I think, something great to test. If you've ever wanted to try it out, or if you have, like, an event coming up or something like that where you can, yeah, invest a little bit of money into a professional photographer or videographer, great to try out that style of content and see if that works. Um, I think also obviously like any marketing podcast, I feel like all they do is talk about ai all the time. But, um, yeah, I think something that people can stop doing, which probably everyone has heard, is stop just copying your captions straight from chat gpt. Everyone can tell um, and I think there's like common structuring that chat gpt does as well. That is becoming extremely, extremely evident as well. Even if you are editing your content, still the structuring is looking very, very similar and it's an instant turn off, like once.
Speaker 2:You see, I usually find that it's like the rocket ship emoji at the start of a caption. You know, they always put an emoji before the actual text. That's a telltale sign. The m dash it's like the rocket ship emoji at the start of a caption. You know they always put an emoji before the actual text. That's a telltale sign. The M dash, which is like the longer dash that's a telltale sign. The little leaf emoji that's another one.
Speaker 2:So I think, yeah, if you're using ChatGPT, educate it. We use AI across all of our clients and we use it as an inspiration tool. You know, don't let it be just a copy and paste tool. It can definitely save you time. Like we use it in brainstorms, we'll dump all of our ideas in there and be like, hey, do you have anything else to build on this? But, yeah, really educate.
Speaker 2:Whatever AI platform you're using on your brand, give it so much information about yourself, business, how you talk, how the business talks, your ideal client, um, yeah, what they're interested in.
Speaker 2:Try and, yeah, give it as much information as possible so that you get more tailored outcomes from it, because otherwise everyone's content is kind of just starting to look the same, even content ideas asking it for content ideas.
Speaker 2:You'll just see the same types of content over and over and over again, because people just put in give me content ideas, for I'm a wellness consultant and blah, blah, blah, and then it'll spit out the same ideas for you that it does the next person that asks that.
Speaker 2:So, give it as much information as possible to, yeah, give you better results. I think, um, yeah, and I think another thing that people should stop doing is probably just like waiting for everything to be perfect. That's something I've learned, um, from growing the business as well is just time is of the essence. We have such short attention spans now when it comes to anything on social media or marketing in general, and if you want to jump on a trend or you know something's going on in the media landscape that you think is relevant for your brand, just jump on it and go for it. I think that's where you can kind of, yeah, fall short is when you're just waiting for everything to be perfect and no, it's got to look exactly like this and you know, get out of your own way and just post it.
Speaker 2:Get it out there, um, because, yeah, time is of the essence these days, for sure everything is moving so fast and what is trending today is so overdone by next week oh, absolutely, yeah, like I think, when I used to talk to clients, maybe like a year, like two years ago, three years ago would be, like you know, it's like a 24-hour cycle content cycle.
Speaker 2:But now I feel like it's like it's like a six-hour content cycle, like, especially if you're like posting during like the key posting times, I guess, between, like at in the evenings, when people are most online, if there's a trend going around, you'll see like 20 of those videos at once and you can get sick of things so quickly. So, yeah, I think, yeah, making sure that you're jumping on the train at the right time and with trends just not jumping on every single trend you don't need to do everything. Make sure that it's right for you and that you feel like you can execute it well in a short amount of time. Um, yeah, when I say, I guess, like, don't wait for everything to be perfect, you still want to make sure that it represents your brand well, so making sure that it's something that's relevant for you, but you can also, yeah, jump on it quickly yeah, which actually leads me to my next question.
Speaker 1:Given we do live in such a fast-paced world at the moment, particularly with social media, what are some things that your clients well, you're doing with your clients to capture attention? Um, I know that you do come up with pretty cool, unique ideas. I'm thinking of that content shoot you did where you're on that line bike with the um, I suppose in the basket, which I will still. That will still pop into my brain every now and then.
Speaker 2:Um, for some context, sarah did this shoot and they just had like a BTS video of her hooning down on this line bike and then slamming the brakes on and what we add like you have, like alcoholic icy poles yeah, yeah, they're an alcoholic ice block brand and they have a lime flavor, and so we'd seen this photo on Pinterest of this lime bike filled with ice and it had oysters in it and we thought, oh my god, that would be cool to replicate that and do it with the lime flavored um product. So, yeah, we were riding around in my local park and I swear we had to do that shot like 10 times and I totally forgot we were doing that day and I was wearing like a maxi skirt, trying to ride a live.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so like what are you doing, like similar stuff like that, to really capture attention? And you did mention trends are a good thing to tap into from time to time. I guess how do you determine whether it's worth jumping on or you're like that's overdone and we're just going to get lost by copying that or being a part of that trend?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think in terms of deciding on what kind of trends, thinking about how your audience is going to react to it. So you want to make sure that you're solving, I guess, your audience's problem very quickly. You want to make sure that it's like hyper specific to your brand or you can even manipulate it in a way to be specific to your brand. Like, say, using that as an example like riding a bicycle has nothing to do with this product, but the lime association and being able to make something fun and, I guess, out of the box, maybe something where you wouldn't necessarily expect to see your product or your brand, that can be a good way to capture attention is putting it in situations where it may, yeah, look out of place and that's a great way to capture attention because people aren't expecting it to see it there. So I guess that's where, like kind of those stunts where people are doing things out in public can be really really eye-catching, yeah, and I think making sure that, yeah, when you're talking to your audience, you're solving their problem really, really quickly. So say, for example um, you're not just saying something like, hey, we sell pet food. It's like is your dog a picky eater? This product is for them, that kind of thing. So really solving that specific issue. So it's not just like, hey, you have a dog, do you want pet food? It's more about, um, what are the specific problems for your pet that we are solving as an example. So, um, yeah, that's a good way to capture attention and get people talking um.
Speaker 2:And yet your community is so important to working out what is actually going to work for you. So really making sure that you're listening to them, listening to their feedback, um, being in the spaces that they're in. So say, for example, we have a client whose male, whose main demographic is like young males, like 18 to 30 year olds, and we're all we're a team of women but we make sure that we're like, we're looking at what memes they're on, we're asking our partners, we're asking our friends. So, you know, get in the communities that your audience may be in. If you're not necessarily your target, demo and, yeah, and learn about them, ask them for their advice. Yeah, look on forums, that kind of thing, to try and find content that will really stand out to them and understand what they're looking for in content.
Speaker 1:You'll see Sarah down at the local pub just chatting.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, literally, we're going to the local pub next week to shoot some content that's so good.
Speaker 1:I love what you said before about just getting to the point a lot quicker, especially because we are just scrolling so quick. So just having that first three seconds all about what you're here to help them with is so important. Um, who was telling me this about? Yeah, someone said that there's such thing as a millennial pause and like when they start, they'll always have like a pause and then they'll go anyway.
Speaker 2:So I'm here to tell you about it's like I'm gone by that point yeah, it's because we're used to waiting for to like see if the camera is working, so so used to it not working, I definitely have to cut out all my millennial pauses, yeah so funny that these are becoming phrases.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what I've been doing is recording myself and then literally cutting out the whole introduction. It kind of sounds like I've just started mid-sentence, but at least I'm getting to the point, because I do dick around a little bit before I get to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I find that we put on. So say, for example, if we're editing a piece of content in CapCut, I'll put on the captions first before I edit it, because it helps me really clearly see where there's breaks in the person talking. Or, yeah, cutting out any of those pauses, or, yeah, there's things on CapCut you can use to remove filler words and stuff like that. So, doing that to make sure that you're really capturing people's attention quickly, because those first three seconds of a video even I would say like two seconds, one second of a video are so, so, so crucial. So, making sure you're really addressing the problem straight away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the head of Instagram came out recently with some like stats around, or what you should be looking at to help increase your reach for reels, and he was saying that, obviously, average watch time is a good one. So making sure that you're hooking them in well enough at the start that they're going to keep on watching for longer. Um, that's a really key stat that they're looking at to see whether they're going to put your content out to more people at the moment. So, yeah, making sure that you're getting people in as soon as possible is really important that's good to know, because I know a lot of this.
Speaker 1:Like I know, a lot of people would just look at how many views is this particular getting, but that doesn't always mean a lot. We should really be looking at like are they actually sticking around or are they just watching it for literally one second and scrolling past?
Speaker 2:yeah, and the average watch time, I guess, isn't particular. To so say, for example, if you post an eight second video and a one minute long video, they're still going to take it for have people watch for eight seconds regardless. So, um, yeah, they're not determined like say, for example, if you have a really long video, they're not. Um, yeah, putting you further down in the algorithm because people have only watched eight seconds of it. That's still a lot of time for people to stay engaged with your content in this day and age. So, yeah, they're not necessarily like impacting you negatively for that. Um, they have also said that having a look at your like rate and your share rate is really important. So that's something that we're shifting to more now with clients. It's kind of been a really big education journey for our clients to understand.
Speaker 2:I guess usually people look at following count and be like that's really important and who? But it's kind of it is important, but it is, I guess, more of a vanity metric. If your followers aren't engaging with you, then that's a problem, and now people's engagement is more shifting to, I guess, like silent engagement. So then people are way less inclined to comment these days, I think if you even think about your own activity on social media. I'm just sending reels to my friends via dms. Now I'm not tagging people in it. I'm very rarely commenting on things anymore. So they're also looking at your share rate. So how many people have actually shared your content versus how many people have seen it? That's what they're looking at now to determine how well your content is performing. So if you're seeing a shift, I guess, away from comments, it's not necessarily a negative thing. It's obviously great if your audience is commenting and engaging with you in that public kind of way. But yeah, looking at shares is a really, really important metric at the moment.
Speaker 1:So with that, would you recommend, you know people really bring into their content strategy that generic shareable content just to like get people to share it. You know, obviously having content that's selling your product is important and getting to the point a little bit more in terms of what you do, but bringing in just, yeah, that more of that generic humorous type of content just to get people to share it with their friends and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, humorous, educational, anything that's going to encourage someone to yeah, pass it on to someone else. They might want to share it to their story. They might want to yeah, pass it along to a friend. Anything like that is going to help you get further reach. And then that's just how you're going to bring the audience in at the top of funnel and then after that, if they're interested in your content, maybe they'll keep watching some of your other videos, maybe they'll follow you. So then after that you can kind of use that as I guess, yeah, your top of funnel content to just bring in new people.
Speaker 2:You obviously still want to make sure it's aligned to your business and what you're going to talk about, because if it's not, and then they follow along, they're going to go oh, none of this content is relevant for me, I'm going to unfollow and not engage. So you still want to make sure it's like hyper relevant to what your whole business is about. But, yeah, definitely to get more people into your funnel, definitely utilizing anything that can get you high shares is really important at the moment.
Speaker 1:Okay, amazing Noted. Moving on now to I know a lot of women who listen to this show have businesses that are quite established. They've been in the industry for a little while now. What would you suggest they do to stay fresh? I guess, like what can they do to feel that way when approaching their content, because if you've been creating content for a long time, it can get a little bit mundane sometimes. So what can they do to get the spark back? And also, how can they stay fresh in their industry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I mean, I feel that we're creating content all day long and it can get exhausting, you know. I think, like creative fatigue is definitely something that, yeah, we all suffer with if you work in anything to do with content. So, um, I think finding what you originally loved about it is a good way to, yeah, I guess, reignite passion or even just doing something creative before you get in to help you get into that headspace. So say, for example, as an agency, we like usually around once a month, we'll try and do something to get us out of our funk and yet get us into a more creative environment. Obviously helps, now that we're in a studio, we're feeling a lot more creative being here than my spare bedroom. But, yeah, say, for example, like in later in that we're in a studio, we're feeling a lot more creative being here than my spare bedroom. But, yes, every example, like in later in May, we're doing a copywriting workshop for a day. So, you know, taking us out of our day-to-day to try and help us get into a bit more of a creative spark.
Speaker 2:I think another thing is just don't be afraid to step outside of your norms of what you're doing. So, obviously, look at your data and understand what's working for you, but think about creative ways that you can manipulate that. So, if you see that a certain type of content is working maybe it's all videos of you talking to camera is working really well how can you then make that a bit more fun or make it a bit more different? Maybe you're going out into a different environment and doing that. So, rather than talking to camera from you know, from your bedroom, you're doing it out in the street and you're interviewing people.
Speaker 2:Think about different ways that you can test content formats that are working already and yet get creative with it, and I think that can help bring you back a little bit of a spark as to yeah, into loving your content. Again, it can definitely get very exhausting, particularly if you are working to a formula this works. I'm going to do this every single Monday because I know that this works and this gets me sales. Always leave room for testing, because these platforms change so quickly and everyone's ways of consuming content changes extremely quickly as well, so you never know what might work. So making sure that you're refreshing your strategy regularly is really important.
Speaker 1:Even just changing your location, as you said, makes the biggest difference. The other day I went to sit in my office and do a talking video and I was like I hate this, like the same white wall. I literally just walked outside, just out the front of my house, I had the palm tree in the background and suddenly I was obsessed with that piece of content. It just changes how you feel about it and also it's a change for your audience as well. They're not just looking at the same background all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it can kind of set yourself a little bit of a challenge as well. I guess, like, if you're used to filming content or creating content in a certain way, going to a different environment can really keep you on your toes. Like we find that with clients that sometimes, yeah, if we're out on site at a shoot and something has happened, then you need to get creative. You've got no choice. You're there and you're there to do a job. So putting yourself in a different scenario that you're not used to could kind of like, yeah, it can create a bit of a challenge for you and make you feel, maybe spark some more confidence again back in your content. You know, content creation because if you're doing everything the same way, you might feel like, oh, I can't really do anything else besides this because this is all I know. You know, start getting yourself out in different situations to, yeah, put a little bit of fun pressure on yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and worst case scenario, go and book yourself a hotel room or a nice resort and put it on the business, exactly. And then the last question I had and I know again, I feel like you're really good at this coming up with unique ways to market offline, like not just rely on your iPhone to record content. From that point of view, like getting a little bit more creative with, like, offline marketing, and then like even deeper than that, like removing social media altogether Is there a way that we can market ourself and get our brand out there that's not relying on the algorithm?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I think the scary thing about social media platforms is we don't own them. So I think that was really prevalent with the TikTok ban in the US and you know that may come back again. We don't know what's happening there yet. So, um, it's definitely scary knowing that these platforms can be taken away from us at any point in time. I remember years ago they did like a media ban, um on facebook and shut down all of the facebook pages that posted that were media sites and the company I was working for at the time. The algorithm for some reason picked, thought that we were a media site and shut down our facebook and it was, you know, right before one of our key periods of year and it was terrifying. It's like that's my whole job gone. So, um, you definitely need to find ways to own your own audience. Yes, they're with you on social media, but get them onto your email marketing platforms, even directing them to your website and making sure that you've got you know your different pixels and things like that on then on there so you can retarget them for other ways. But definitely investing in email marketing is, um, the way to go, um, you, I guess, once they've given you their email and their phone number. That's a whole nother way for you to contact them. If anything is to god, god forbid, happen to social media. But it gives you another, more personal way to talk to them. If they've given you their data, they're clearly interested in you so you can be a little bit more upfront with them. You could go into more detail there that maybe you can't on social media and it can.
Speaker 2:No marketing platform is a set and forget platform, but you can set up funnels in your email marketing to somewhat serve as a set and forget. So say, for example, if you have like an e-commerce website and we've all been sent these emails, you put something in your, you sign up for the 10% discount code, and then you put something in your cart and then you leave, and then next thing you know you're getting an email two days later saying, hey, you left this in your cart, and then you leave, and then you know next thing, you know you're getting an email two days later saying, hey, you left this in your cart. So you can set up email funnels like that to make sure that you're retargeting your audiences once they've given you their data at some point, and you can set these up. Leave them for a month, come back and see what one's working, set up some testing. So maybe you have one of the emails has a lot of imagery in it. Another one is all plain text. See what's working best with your audiences, see what different call to action buttons are working best with them. And, yeah, that's a great yeah, somewhat set and forget method that you can set up. Leave it for a bit, let it test, change things around, leave it again, test it again. So that's a great way to to yet not rely on social media so heavily.
Speaker 2:Um, and then, yeah, investing in your community. I think that's a huge thing on social media, um, that brands are doing really, the brands that are doing really well have a community around them. Like, think about all of the people on TikTok you follow. People are, you know, obsessed with them. Like thinking about, say, for example, like Jazz Handmade and those kind of businesses on the gold coast. They have a massive community around them that now are the voice of their business. For them they don't need to I don't feel like I never see their jewelry on their tiktok page but you know their community is obsessed with them and that's what's driving the business. So, um, in terms of taking that off offline, you know, have community events. You know, host a, um, yeah, host an event once a year. It doesn't have to be massive either, it can just be small little things. Could be a coffee meetup if that's relevant for your community. So, yeah, investing in them and because then, yeah, they will be the voice for you outside of your own business I love that idea.
Speaker 1:I want to start that like having like a mingle, like a drinks somewhere just to get people offline, and I think we are all craving that at the moment, just that in-person connection, because things just get so lost online now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think even after your event, like we saw that that just being able to have that face-to-face connection with these people that you've met on social media or you know online, just having that real in-person connection, has then made that community so much stronger, because you have, yeah, that real personal bond now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Now I don't think I included this in your little question, so I'm going to throw you under the like, throw this out there. But what's one thing you're doing with your clients right now that is really working and I know you have so many different industries that you work with, but if there's one thing that's standing out to you, what would that be? Or just one thing you're really enjoying with your clients at the moment?
Speaker 2:That's a great question question. Yeah, I think one thing that we're definitely seeing the benefits from and also really enjoying is, I guess, just being reactive with our content. Um, there's, I think, always a place for you need to be proactive. You need to plan out your content, um, make sure you've got yeah, you're not, I guess, having periods where you're not posting for 10 days because you forgot to do it. I'm a big believer in you know, batch, creating your content, setting up a calendar, scheduling it all, getting it all, whatever you need to do to make sure that you're consistent, but also leave room for reactive content in there as well.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, jumping on the trends that are relevant. Yeah, jumping on seasonal moments like yeah, for example, that client that is got the mail demo, it's going to be magic round here in um in Brisbane next weekend for the NRL. So we're going to try and go there and do some like um interviewing content and stuff like that. So, jumping on fun seasonal things like that, try and find things like that within your industry where you can go out, and then also, that's a great opportunity for you to connect with community as well.
Speaker 2:Um, we always love doing those things because, yeah, it feels like then we have. We've kind of already broken that first barrier of getting people connected with the brand. They've seen it in person, they've been able to touch it, feel it, get to know the people behind the brand and, yeah, it just helps, I guess, get them further down the funnel a lot quicker and then also build a bit more brand trust and brand love from them. So, yeah, being able to, yeah, be reactive and then, yeah, having opportunities to do in real life stuff is always so fun yeah, and it's fun to watch as a consumer as well, like I love just watching.
Speaker 1:um, yeah, people out and about just interviewing people, or that will be really cool, like seeing you guys at the footy just making something from that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's works well on both sides. Yeah, yeah, it's really fun to I guess. Yeah, you kind of never know what's going to happen, so it does keep you on your toes a little bit. And yeah, again, you have to get creative when, I guess, you're out in the wild Anything in the wild.
Speaker 1:I love that Well, as expected, this has been so helpful and I'm sure there's so many golden nuggets in here for all of you, no matter what industry you're in or where you're at in your business. And one big takeaway and I've learned so much from this when I was working with Sarah is keep your eyes on your content and your business and what's working and what's not, and give your people what they want. I know it's easy as a content creator to kind of be a bit rigid because you're like, but this is what I like doing and this is the easiest piece of content to create. But yeah, sarah's always said like you've got to also give them what they want, to keep an eye on your stats, look at what's working, look at what's not and be fluid, because it does make such a big difference.
Speaker 1:Yes Well, sarah, thank you so much for joining us today and coming on the podcast. If you love this episode. Another reason to get inside her empire, because Sarah has actually done an exclusive training in there that you'll get access to. That was jam-packed with so much, so you'll get to learn more from Sarah if you do join me inside her empire. But, sarah, thank you so much for your time today and sharing everything that you do. I'm forever grateful for you.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, Grateful for you.
Speaker 1:And guys, thank you for tuning in and if you love this episode, go and send Sarah a DM at Symbol Agency and tell her that you love this episode, because they're really nice to receive. Otherwise, stay plugged into the advice from her series. There's a couple more coming your way and I will talk to you guys in the next one, thank you. Thank you so much for tuning into the podcast. I'm sure you're loving each and every episode and if you are, I would be so grateful if you could take just a couple of minutes to leave your review and or rating. This allows me to connect with you as I read your comment or see the review, and it also allows me to grow the show, which means more impact, more powerful guests for you guys to learn from and more women changing their life for the better. If this does align, send me a screenshot of your review or rating to hello at jessmartincomau and I'll send you a copy of my ebook for free to say thanks.